Clearvue with smaller motor?

[djwong]

I have a situation where I cannot install 240V in my garage to run a Clearvue cyclone. Is it possible to use a motor I can run on 120V under 20A? I know this will result in less effective dust collection. My only other option is to use a canister type dust collector. I only have a bandsaw and a jointer/planner, with no permanent ducting. I would use the cyclone directly connected to the dust source.

Is there any information on this type of setup option?

Thanks in advance...

[AlanBienlein]

From my understanding you need to increase the diameter of the cyclone if you use a motor with less horsepower. You might want to go to http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm and read the info he has there. Take your time because there is alot of info on his site.

As far as being able to use the clearvue with a smaller hp motor I don't know. Maybe Matt can answer that for you.

[dwdrury]

For what its worth, here's another idea for you: Use a good shop vac with a Mini. With my collection of Shopsmith tools, and their small, 2.5" nominal ports, I find I that sort of hookup reasonably satisfactory. The Mini is rigged to a Fein vac, into which I've installed a CleanStream filter (HEPA). This sort of setup does a fair job on the Shopsmith planer, some chips are still ejected (see my Mini installation in the Gallery). Nor does it capture everything from the Shopsmith bandsaw. But that said, it does at least as good a job as my ancient Delta dust collector (more like a dust pump). (The Delta is being replaced by a full sized cyclone.)

In years past, where I found most of my fine dust is generated is via the sanders, even with a sanding table hooked up to that old Delta. But whether that's a function of the table or the poor final filtering of the Delta's bag, probaby a toss up.

Bottom line: Using a Mini won't capture all the fine dust you generate, the function of a full size. But it does help quite a bit on increasing the neatness level of my shop. Might be worth exploring.

Only other thing I can add is that if you go this route, I'd recommend you spend the extra bucks on a quality shop vac and a good final filter. Pick one that's quiet as it'll be running alot and the shriek of many will be very annoying over the long term. The Feins and Festools have good reputations in this regard. I can attest to the Fein, but haven't owned a Festool. Others here in the forums have, though.

Regards,
DWD

[djwong]

I will probably hook up a canister dust collector with a Thein separator lid. I need more CFM's for my jointer/planer than a mini vac can give. My problem is I have to replace my main panel to get 240V into my garage. I can squeeze one out with the existing panel for my jointer/planer and a bandsaw, but not another circuit for the cyclone.

[Don01]

Can you not add a sub panel and move some 120v circuits to it or double up your 120 v circuits using min breakers?
I have a Square D panel and have been adding mini breakers (2 circuits in one slot) when required over the years.

Don

[djwong]

I already have a sub-panel located in the main house which takes half the power supported by the main panel. Almost the rest of the breakers left in the main panel are for dedicated circuits. By code, I cannot share them. Even without considering the code and sharing those circuits, I will probably overload something by adding an additional 40A to 50A of load for my woodworking activities. I would have to restrict household activities like not running the oven or dryer when I run the planer and cyclone. Not the easiest sell in my household.

[phyxitman]

If you have a 200A service or even 150A you shouldn't have to worry about competing with the oven and such, unless you have a huge totally electric house. Even if that is the course and you have a 200A service you should be good. Provided this is the case, install another sub panel in the garage or for the garage. If you have no empty spaces in your main replace some of your breakers with half thickness breakers, some call them wafer breakers nothing against the code for them. All you got to do is replace enough to get 1 double pole brkr to feed your new sub-panel. Then you're good to go. Nothing in the code to limit how many subs you have. Just be sure to run 4 wires to the sub panel, seperate neutral and ground bars and no bonding screw. just because you have a lot of dedicated breakers doesn't mean you are drawing max amps. IF you're concerned turn everything on and put an amprobe on your service and see what it draws. If you got a 200A service and you are only drawing 100A you still got 100 you can use. If you have 150A service you might be close. however if you heat with gas or oil, have a gas water heater, gas dryer, and/or gas range and oven you will probably be good to go. If I lost you pm me and perhaps I can help clear the mud. BTW been arcing and sparking for the better part of 30 years.

[phyxitman]

BTW I have 200A service heat pump w/gas backup and gas range. Ran 100A sub to detached garage. Never come close to maxing it out. air compressors, 5hp planer, 3 hp cabinet saw, shopsmith, RAS, miter saws, dust collector not to mention the welders, grinders and such. IF you want to lower your electric bill and know how to use an amprobe, turn on your usual items plus washer/dryer, a/c and such. Measure amp draw on each leg of service electric. Ideally they should be close in amp draw (balanced). If not, shut off your main, swap a couple 110v circuits and power back up. Remeasure continue until the 2 service legs are as balanced as possible. If you have a newer house or recently upgraded service don't think you are balanced. Out of 100 new jobs perhaps 5 are balanced more like 1.

[djwong]

If you have a 200A service or even 150A you shouldn't have to worry about competing with the oven and such, unless you have a huge totally electric house. Even if that is the course and you have a 200A service you should be good. Provided this is the case, install another sub panel in the garage or for the garage. If you have no empty spaces in your main replace some of your breakers with half thickness breakers, some call them wafer breakers nothing against the code for them. All you got to do is replace enough to get 1 double pole brkr to feed your new sub-panel. Then you're good to go. Nothing in the code to limit how many subs you have. Just be sure to run 4 wires to the sub panel, seperate neutral and ground bars and no bonding screw. just because you have a lot of dedicated breakers doesn't mean you are drawing max amps. IF you're concerned turn everything on and put an amprobe on your service and see what it draws. If you got a 200A service and you are only drawing 100A you still got 100 you can use. If you have 150A service you might be close. however if you heat with gas or oil, have a gas water heater, gas dryer, and/or gas range and oven you will probably be good to go. If I lost you pm me and perhaps I can help clear the mud. BTW been arcing and sparking for the better part of 30 years.

Thanks for the help. Your advice on measuring the true electrical load is sort of what I am doing now. I am adding up the stated loads on all the electrical devices in the house. My electric usage and bill are actually quite low, but my problem is what the local code and building department will allow. I had an electrician come out to look at adding a couple of 240V circuits, and he told me that to do the work by permit, I would probably need to go to a 400A panel. My utility company told me that they would have to at the very least, pull a new service feed (underground) to support the 400A panel. At worst, they would have to tear up the street and lay a new service conduit to accommodate the new larger service feed. All this would amount to several thousand to over $10K. That really put me in a funk of inactivity for a while. After I woke up, I decided to calculate my true load to see what I have left to work with. I'll probably engage a different electrician to help me with the calculation and hopefully do the work.

Thanks everyone for your help and encouragement. I am pretty much sold on getting a Clearvue once I get my electrical sorted out.

[phyxitman]

I don't know what all you have but I can't fathom you needing a 400A service. That would be a good size commercial service. Heck you can't even get a residential main panel larger than 200A. I recommend you ask another electrician or if you like I can send you a questionaire that you can fill out. Then send it to me and I'll crunch numbers and see what size you need based on the NEC book.

[nicemac]

I had to upgrade to a 400A meter base before I could get a permit to add my small shop last year. I tried to explain that I was simply moving the activities I had been doing in my garage for years to a detached building.

I explained that I wasn't adding a single tool and there would be no increased load. I could not get a permit until I put in larger cable from the street and a new 400A meter base.

The utility paid for the wire and the meter (since I was "upgrading" my service), but I had to pay for new conduit from the street, (140') a new meter base, rent a trencher, plus I had to pay for a "ditch inspection". I added a subpanel for the shop and did all of the work myself and it still cost quite a bit.

[Erik]

Djwong,

I know in Belgium things are different but I will try to give you a different look at your problem.
I have a 3x 20A x 220V (3phase) feed for the total of my workshop. True I cannot run all my machines at the same time but as I am alone I use only one machine and the cyclone together.
My machines are all 3phase which means that I use 40% LESS amps than if they were 2phase.
I fitted an (3phase) inverter on my cyclone to accomplish 2 main things: To be able to set the frequency (here in Belgium it is 50Hz) to 60Hz AND to be able to do a softstart so I would not use a high start current when I switch the cyclone on. The maximum current I use on the cyclone is 9 (nine) Amps (3x220V) = 1980 W = 2.65 HP. I get this info from the inverter. In your situation you would use 16.5 Amps @ 120V.
I found my inverter (3.7 kW) on eBay for $200 made by Hitachi. New it should be about $400.
Now here is the coolest thing: you can buy a inverter that takes 2phase 120V input but outputs 3phase 220V. Hitachi makes a X200-022NFU in 2.2kW (3Hp) version. It might be just to small. It depends on your setup.
If you stick to the recommended 3.7kW (5Hp) motor that is standard to the Clearvue you will have to use 3phase220V. Hitachi X200-037LFU would be what you are looking for.
Important is that you tell Ed (when you order) that you are going to use 3phase and not 2phase with your cyclone.
As an extra you can then run the cyclone at 30Hz continually just as an air cleaner.
I hope this is of help.
Erik