View Full Version : using attic space
08-31-2008, 03:31 PM
I'm new to all this, and am planning for a cyclone--haven't purchased it yet, but am getting wiring and planning done first. Here's my question: has anyone gone up into an attic space instead of taking floor space to build a closet for sound proofing? My floor space is limited and I can't really go outside the end of the garage where my shop is to put it outside (I run into the garden :) ). But I do have a full attic over the garage (garage is separate from the house). My ceiling height is 8 1/2 feet, with another 7 feet directly above where I plan to locate the cyclone. Being new to this, though, I'm a bit stumped as to how to make this work. Any ideas?
08-31-2008, 06:15 PM
The considerations to putting a cyclone in the attic include ducting, how you get air to and from the cyclone, and ease of getting to the filters and bin for cleaning and emptying. One interesting solution was John Randle's, here. (http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/CV1800+and+CVMax/rand4723/) He split up his system to allow access to what he needed to access, and to vent the filtered air back into his shop.
If your shop is heated or air conditioned, then if your filters are in the attic, the air extracted by the blower will have to come from somewhere, and will make your heater or AC work that much harder.
Also, consider your neighborhood and how your attic is vented. If you're out in the boonies, then not a problem. But if you're in a cheek by jowl neighborhood, and the attic has a gable style vent, then the noise of the system may annoy the neighbors. However, you could build a closet in the attic, lined with insulation, that should make it quiet enough so the issue goes away.
And finally, consider the attic environs. Here in the SC swamps, the humidity on a salt marsh plus the heat make it so things in attics wear out quicker. I'm sorry I let our builder talk us into putting the AC air handlers and water heaters in ours. If you're in a drier and more temperate area, this too, is not an issue for you.
Those are the "first thought" considerations. There might be others, but I can't think of anything that would make it impossible.
09-03-2008, 03:40 PM
Thanks, DWD, for your thoughts. A few more details. I really like the link you provided to John Randle's solution--I think that a combination of putting the fan in the attic, separate from the cyclone, AND an insulated box for the fan (complete with ventilation, which I have yet to figure out) is the solution. I'm in Michigan, in an uninsulated garage that I heat on a need-only basis. So far, after five years of working in an uninsulated garage, the only real issue that I've run into is rust proofing EVERYTHING, often, and running my 6-inch jointer off of a 30 amp circuit, because it takes more juice to start up at 25 degrees than at 70 degrees. Thus, the fan would be in an uninsulated garage either way--in the attic or on the floor of the garage.
I do live in a cheek by jowl neighborhood, but since we have a number of woodworkers, I don't think sound will be a huge issue but I do think that building an insulated box for the fan in the attic is the way to go. I like the fact that John Randle's fan has a rubber pad under it. I'll read up on the threads that discuss ventilation for the fan and let everyone know what I come up with. One other note: I do like the idea of running the 6-inch pipes in the attic, as Randle has done with his system. We have a huge 2 foot, home made beam (previous owner) running through the garage that has been an issue for my duct work.
Thanks again, and I'll let folks know what I come up with. Other ideas are more than welcome!
09-03-2008, 05:01 PM
Somewhere in these threads, Jameel Abraham provided an audio file of his cyclone running, and for comparison, his table saw as well. Jameel built an insulated closet, and the audio is with his door open and shut. That'll give you some idea of the sort of sound these things make. If you look in the member list, then for his name under the "J"s, you can find his posts. If you have trouble finding it, holler and I'll give it a go.
Mine's still under construction, but I have started it and let it run a few minutes, without ducting and with the bottom of the filters open. It was not as obnoxious as I'd feared after reading the posts. My old dust collector (dust pump, per Bill Pentz, and rightly so) is a 1 HP Delta 2 stage. The CV1800 is perhaps a bit louder, but similar in frequencies, more a rumble than a shriek. There is a fair amount of hiss from air going through the filters. Again, you can tell its there but its not as dominating as first feared.
The fan unit is very smooth running. Matt does a good job balancing his fans. So, sure, putting some sort of vibration pad under the mount is quick and easy if you plan for it ahead of time. Which sort of makes any discussion about whether or not its necessary moot. Slap it up there and forget about it.
I think the "take away" from the above is that you might want to make space and other planning provisions for some noise insulation, but get the thing running then go see if you actually have to do it. Could be your attic provides sufficient noise absorption or deflection characteristics so the neighbors barely notice it.
The metal bits on the CV1800 (not including the filters) are the Leeson motor, which is painted, and the impeller, which is powder coated. Certainly some paint gets knocked off the Leeson and its mount flanges during shipping, but that's probably insignificant. My impeller arrived with only slight witness abrasions to the powder coat, none through the coat to the metal that I could see. Other than the fasteners (bolts, screws, T-nuts), all else is either PTEG plastic or MDF. So I don't think rust will be an issue for you there.
The filter flanges (if you get Wynn's) are probably the most likely to show rust first. These are industrial style filters, designed, I think, to be replaced with some regularity and/or sit in some sort of housing. So the paint on the flanges is there primarily for looks, not protection. And it does get scratched and chipped in shipping. We're not using them that way, and expect them to last longer. So in your (and my) environs, I think those will be the first to get rusty. But I don't expect to live long enough to see that day. If it bothers you, you can always tape off filters and spray the flanges with some Rustoleum.
09-03-2008, 07:54 PM
One thing I got from Bill Pentz in a private note was that if you are running your duct in the attic where it will be out of sight, be sure to use metal ducting. If a fire were to break out because of a metal spark in a machine (blade on metal) then you would burn through the PVC quickly with very little fore warning. My pipe is above my ceiling, but I built a tunnel of sorts, open to the shop, that it runs in so I could see the pipe. If I hadn't already purchased most of the piping and about half of the fittings, I might have gone to spiral pipe for mine. Jim.
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09-17-2008, 04:18 PM
I'm not quite finished with my install yet, but it will come, along with cooler weather. My cyclone and filters are in the attic .. .. drop tube for chips comes through a 6" pipe down into the shop .. pickup ducting drops through the ceiling, then spreads normally to each work station .. filters are located in a large plenum in the attic, with the filtered air diffusing down into the shop via a rather large opening in the ceiling, with a piece of fiberglass grating covering the hole. The grating swings down, and the filters are accessible. I know it's overkill, but I'm using six Torit filters in a bank two-high & three across .. they were free !! !! The filters are oval-shaped, and since my trusses are on 19.2" centers, they fit very nicely into a plenum made from plywood that sits right down between the trusses.
09-17-2008, 08:23 PM
We'd love to see pics of your installation, Bob. Can you put them into the Gallery?
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09-17-2008, 09:55 PM
It'll be at least a couple of weeks before I get it finished enough to get meaningful photos, but I'll let you know when it's at that point.
One other really neat thing I've incorporated is a "Bindicator" .. .. it's a tuning-fork technology device wherein the forks are situated in the chip collection barrel .. .. one fork sends out a signal, and the other receives same. When the chips get high enough, communication is disrupted, and it knows something is wrong, so it changes state of 4 solid-state internal relays .. .. 2 N.O. close and 2 N.C. open. Each relay can handle 5A. so I have it setup to trigger a 120V red strobe light to tell me when the barrel is full. I thought about using an OFF_DELAY timer on one of the N.C. contacts to shut down the blower 15 sec. after the light comes on to give me time to stop activity, and purge the lines, but after seeing how this thing pulls, I'm not too concerned about dust settling in the lines. Again, overkill, but I got it free from my old employer .. it was a model that they no longer used, and they were throwing it out !! !! !!
I've also made some extremely "neat" hangers for my ductwork .. .. I'll post those phots as well. Therse are SO simple, yet effective and downright elegant (I think).
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