Would a design like this reduce Static pressure significantly ?

[Jake Darvall]

Hi,

Sorry about all the questions.

I got this idea lying in bed last night and was wondering what you think.

My new workshop is sitting on a retaining wall.

And since good ducting(I've read) is very important to performance, I thought why not take advantage of this whole retainer wall idea, and build my enclosure off the wall down low to house the cyclone, such that the piping can run at machine level from the very beginning. All my machines will be positioned along the walls anyway. I don't want any pipes crossing the middle of the shop.

I'd imagine it make a difference in some way because there will be no down pipes and against gravity movement. All down hill.

But what I don't know is how much of an improvement it make, because it be a lot easier for me to house the cyclone up on the retainer wall under an awning.

Would it be worth while doing do you think ?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/apricotripper/downhill1.jpg

[dwdrury]

Jake,

If you don't enter, you can't win! So ask away. Just keep in mind reply opinions are freely offered, and some (maybe mine) are worth every penny.

The short answer to your question is, yes, minimizing the number of bends will keep pressure (suction) loss to a minimum.

There's a calculation one can do, where the impact of bends, wyes, flex pipe, etc., can be expressed as an equivalent length of straight, smooth pipe. Sharp bends, like short radius 90 deg. els, are flow killers, as are Tees, and thus have a lot larger straight pipe equivalent. Long radius bends, like using two 45 els with a short (6" to a foot) straight pipe between them, are much better. And use wyes instead of Tees, for the same reason.

I don't have the numbers handy, might be on Pentz' site.

With the performance of CV's machines, if you have to go out of your way to make that proposed installation work, might not be worth the effort. But might be in pipe costs. I'll leave the math to you.

Only other comment, one I've seen others suggest elsewhere, is to make sure your installation is protected from the weather. If your plan is to use a fiber barrel, they won't stand up to rain. So mounting it low, per the photo, may also mean you'll have to extend your awning, provide some splash protection, or something like that.

Regards,
DWD

[Matt]

Hi,

I will see if i can add some confusion to this thread too! :D From what i see it looks better but after thinking about it all you will save is the 3 - 6 inch drops as you will still be using 2 - y's and 4 - 45's......they are just in the horizontal position instead of the vertical position. I Personally would put the cyclone under the awning and come out of the cyclone with a 45 go through the wall then put a 45 inside and run straight across the wall with my 3 6 inch drops.....then you can add more pipe to have a run going across the other wall(i have no idea what's there) later on if need be.

My longest run is 60 feet with 8 45's and 3 y's and I still have plenty of suction. I was mainly thinking of cutting all those holes in the wall either way you go.

The weather should be your first concern as the motor and mdf parts will not hold up to getting wet; I guess the 2nd concern would be getting the trash can down to empty it; from there I guess it's just a matter of preference or ease of putting the pipe up following the rule of 2 - 45's instead of a 90.

Are you on 50 htz power? I thought i read somewhere u were in australia? Did you get the 15 or 16 inch impeller? Either way turn it on after u get it hung and before you start cutting holes as that might change how you do your ducting

Hope this gives you some ideas,

Matt

[Jake Darvall]

Great stuff thankyou.

yep, definetly will keep the water out. The awnings going to be enclosed. Origionally going to be just a fence going around on the edge of the retainer wall (see the stirrups in the cement), but I liked the builders idea of building cover over it to the fence line for more storage....stack all my timber around the outside of the shed, with the cyclone.

This areas like a walkway, so I should be able to get the bin out....and we've got wheely bins here, that the garbage service picks up every week. (I don't know if you have them there..just big 240L plastic bins with wheels on them) My plan was to have one of them as my collection bins and every Monday just wheel it out to the curb for the truck to deal with.

Sounds like I should just flick this low bin idea, and just stick it on the retaining wall. this is good. eliminating the dud ideas. ;)

Yes,,,,50Hz here !.....Been told that'll drop performance. One bloke said between 5 and 15%....So, I've tried to compensate, by getting the 5hp motor and a 16" impeller.

Got my fingers crossed it'll all work ok. I'm looking forward to decent DE for the first time in my life. At work we've got tipical bag dust extractors. Its been a habit of mine for some time to clear this crap from my nose in the shower at end of each day. My boss still thinks dusts essentially harmless :rolleyes: anyway...

thanks guys .

[dwdrury]

Jake,

I trust by now you've seen erik's cyclone (http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/CV1800+and+CVMax/Erik_Gent/) in the gallery and his use of an inverter to convert 50 Hz 3 phase power to 60 Hz.

Erik also seems to think once you incorporate fan performance into the mix, the fan performance takes a 36% hit. See this thread (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bullentin/showthread.php?t=727) and scroll to post #4.

Regards,
DWD

[Jake Darvall]

Jake,

I trust by now you've seen erik's cyclone (http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones.com/v/CV1800+and+CVMax/Erik_Gent/) in the gallery and his use of an inverter to convert 50 Hz 3 phase power to 60 Hz.

Erik also seems to think once you incorporate fan performance into the mix, the fan performance takes a 36% hit. See this thread (http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bullentin/showthread.php?t=727) and scroll to post #4.

Regards,
DWD

No, I hadn't seen that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I wasn't going to bother about a converter. Maybe I should organise one.

36% is bit scary ! ...... I don't know how he arrived at that figure. I was given the impression from conversation back over this way that it be 20% or less.

In his pictures, his readings say 25% less current when using 50Hz over 60Hz.

I'm not sure how current load and CFM relate. Are they directly proportional ?

[dwdrury]

Jake,

If memory serves, Erik constructed a spreadsheet of fan performance to arrive at his calculation. I believe it was based on info from Cincinnati Fan. Think he also provided a link in that same thread.

Short answer is yes they're proportional, but not necessarily 1:1, or linear.

Erik appears to visit this forum from time to time, and may answer directly. However, vBulletin does provide a few methods for contacting other members: email and private message. The latter, though, requires a member to sign on, then notice the new private message notice at the upper right of the header. I know I've missed it a few times.

The email function is more direct, and assuming the member hasn't changed addresses, simply shows up in his or her mailbox. For security and privacy, the sender doesn't see the recipient's address, but the sender's does show up on the recipient's, and he or she can answer directly via email, which then gives up his or her email address to the original sender. As we're all adults here, and share a common interest, shouldn't be a problem. Ultimately, it depends on one's own comfort level. But if the info not on the forums or in his gallery aren't enough, you may wish to contact him directly. He's the only Erik with a K under the "E" in the member list.

You can also use the member list to see all the posts a member has made. May be of use to you to list his and review them as he seems to have found an optimized solution to the power differences between our lands. And highlighted that these boxes aren't toys to be played with if one is uncomfortable with large amounts of high power, a description that would apply to me.

Regards,
DWD

[Matt]

Just remember you have compensated for the lower RPM by going to a 16 inch impeller so before you start to worry with numbers just remember that.

Matt

[Jake Darvall]

yep. still going to be a top setup I think...andl I suppose if latter it proves to be a problem I can look into getting an inverter.

I suspect it won't be though. But then I'm guessing I wouldn't know. I'd probably be as happy as larry working fine when all the visable stuff, is collected quick smart.





thanks DWD. I emailed Erik. Hopefully I'll catch him.